Case Study: Postnuptial helped set aside financial stress in the marriage
[Editor: This episode is part of a video interview series with MaritalMediation member Rebecca Fishman Green in which she talks about her experience as a marital mediator.]
“For them it felt fair for the husband to be solely responsible for all of the debt. So, he did what we lawyers call an indemnification, he would hold her harmless from any of the debt. If and when they ever sell their house, that home equity loan will come out of his share of the proceeds… And they signed their postnuptial agreement and they are still married to this day.”
I can give a few examples of some Marital Mediation cases.
This couple, which was my first marital mediation case, came to me because of money problems.
They had one child, who is in college and, he has probably graduated by now but, he went to a very prestigious college.
He is apparently a very accomplished kid and, they were very sweet to watch as they, you know, both bubbled over with enthusiam about their child. And they have not had any conflicts about parenting and, apparently, you know, have produced this very well-adjusted, accomplished kid.
So that area of their marriage was not presenting any problems with them. The husband used to work as a soap opera writer and had been rather successful financially. They own a nice home in the area. And they apparently were able to put away enough money for their child's college education in advance. And they had done very well financially.
But for about six years, at the time they came to see me, his work had really slacked off. And he didn't know why he was no longer getting the work he had been getting. He didn't know if it was because he was older, because the producers were younger and had different contacts.
He hadn't really been able to identify why. But he felt a lot of shame about not earning as much money as he had at other times during their marriage. as much money as he had at other times during their marriage. And what had happened was, initially, he went out and continued spending at the old income level.
He ran up a bunch of credit card debt over a period of about two years, hadn't told his wife that he was doing this and, it all came to light when he came to her to ask if he could get a home equity line of credit against their home to restructure some of the credit card debt that had been building up.
Until that time, she hadn't known about it and she felt quite angry about the debt and also betrayed in a certain way that he had kept this secret from her - his life partner.
She had been living kind of under an assumption that he shared important things to her or, troubles that were bothering him and, I guess, she hadn't understood the degree of shame and disappointment in himself that he had experienced, which caused him to, somehow, need to keep spending at the same level. So she had consented to the home equity line and, then it was now a couple of years after that, and the spending had continued. So, we had several mediation sessions, I think perhaps, we had three mediation sessions.
And during those sessions, we had some very, you know, moving conversations, where the emotions that I was just describing were revealed, where he was able to more openly talk about his own disappointment in himself for not being able to keep earning at that level.
And she was able to talk about how it made her feel when she learned that he hadn't been able to share those things with her and then, we also were able to look at their finances on a monthly basis. And try to figure out ways to cut expenses.
And we also had, kind of, a brainstorming session about things that he could do to try to earn more money. And I referred him to a career coach, who we had a few sessions with, to try to figure out ways to, sort of, change his target as far as trying to become a, you know, a more active earner again. a, you know, a more active earner again. So then this couple ended up entering into a postnuptial agreement where the husband said he would solely be responsible for 100 percent of this debt. Now under New York law, the assumption of the courts, the first step of the law would be to say that the debt was incurred during marriage and it's going to be divided 50-50.
The wife really felt that that was patently unfair. She had worked all during their child's childhood, but she had a more modest job - she's in the education field. And, I certainly got the impression that she didn't care as much about material things and had been a more modest spender.
And so she would have probably preferred to sit down with him and, you know, have a family meeting before all the debt was incurred and, try to figure out ways to cut costs.
But for whatever reasons, they concluded that, for them it felt fair for the husband to be solely responsible for all of the debt. So, he, you know, he did what we lawyers call an indemnification , he would hold her harmless from any of the debt. If and when they ever sell their house , that home equity loan will come out of his share of the proceeds.
In some ways, this post nuptial agreement is academic, because if it they're not divorcing, they're still living in a home together where the credit cards are one of the bills that have to be paid every month. The home equity loan is one of the bills that have to be paid every month. But for this couple, I think mediation allowed them to have these conversations in a way that they have not been able to have them at home. And then, the fact that the husband was willing to, you know, step up and say, "I will, I will, by hook or by crook, I will pay off this debt, and you won't have to suffer for it." made both of them feel better. And they signed their postnuptial agreement and they are still married to this day.
He is apparently a very accomplished kid and, they were very sweet to watch as they, you know, both bubbled over with enthusiam about their child. And they have not had any conflicts about parenting and, apparently, you know, have produced this very well-adjusted, accomplished kid.
So that area of their marriage was not presenting any problems with them. The husband used to work as a soap opera writer and had been rather successful financially. They own a nice home in the area. And they apparently were able to put away enough money for their child's college education in advance. And they had done very well financially.
But for about six years, at the time they came to see me, his work had really slacked off. And he didn't know why he was no longer getting the work he had been getting. He didn't know if it was because he was older, because the producers were younger and had different contacts.
He hadn't really been able to identify why. But he felt a lot of shame about not earning as much money as he had at other times during their marriage. as much money as he had at other times during their marriage. And what had happened was, initially, he went out and continued spending at the old income level.
He ran up a bunch of credit card debt over a period of about two years, hadn't told his wife that he was doing this and, it all came to light when he came to her to ask if he could get a home equity line of credit against their home to restructure some of the credit card debt that had been building up.
Until that time, she hadn't known about it and she felt quite angry about the debt and also betrayed in a certain way that he had kept this secret from her - his life partner.
She had been living kind of under an assumption that he shared important things to her or, troubles that were bothering him and, I guess, she hadn't understood the degree of shame and disappointment in himself that he had experienced, which caused him to, somehow, need to keep spending at the same level. So she had consented to the home equity line and, then it was now a couple of years after that, and the spending had continued. So, we had several mediation sessions, I think perhaps, we had three mediation sessions.
And during those sessions, we had some very, you know, moving conversations, where the emotions that I was just describing were revealed, where he was able to more openly talk about his own disappointment in himself for not being able to keep earning at that level.
And she was able to talk about how it made her feel when she learned that he hadn't been able to share those things with her and then, we also were able to look at their finances on a monthly basis. And try to figure out ways to cut expenses.
And we also had, kind of, a brainstorming session about things that he could do to try to earn more money. And I referred him to a career coach, who we had a few sessions with, to try to figure out ways to, sort of, change his target as far as trying to become a, you know, a more active earner again. a, you know, a more active earner again. So then this couple ended up entering into a postnuptial agreement where the husband said he would solely be responsible for 100 percent of this debt. Now under New York law, the assumption of the courts, the first step of the law would be to say that the debt was incurred during marriage and it's going to be divided 50-50.
The wife really felt that that was patently unfair. She had worked all during their child's childhood, but she had a more modest job - she's in the education field. And, I certainly got the impression that she didn't care as much about material things and had been a more modest spender.
And so she would have probably preferred to sit down with him and, you know, have a family meeting before all the debt was incurred and, try to figure out ways to cut costs.
But for whatever reasons, they concluded that, for them it felt fair for the husband to be solely responsible for all of the debt. So, he, you know, he did what we lawyers call an indemnification , he would hold her harmless from any of the debt. If and when they ever sell their house , that home equity loan will come out of his share of the proceeds.
In some ways, this post nuptial agreement is academic, because if it they're not divorcing, they're still living in a home together where the credit cards are one of the bills that have to be paid every month. The home equity loan is one of the bills that have to be paid every month. But for this couple, I think mediation allowed them to have these conversations in a way that they have not been able to have them at home. And then, the fact that the husband was willing to, you know, step up and say, "I will, I will, by hook or by crook, I will pay off this debt, and you won't have to suffer for it." made both of them feel better. And they signed their postnuptial agreement and they are still married to this day.
